Why has all activity on Jaksa tapered off? Some here may remember the heyday of Jaksa in the nineties. What is the determining factor in your opinion?

*the 30 day visa. This crippled the backpacker industry because they don't take the time to stay in Jakarta

*changes in Jakarta itself. As the smog, overcrowding and the deterioration of JKT's infrastructure get worse and worse, tourism suffers

*failure of hotel owners to invest in their businesses. Backpackers prefer to stay in an IBIS or hotel on Wahid Hasim than to stay in some of the delapitated dives on Jaksa.

*Death of the International/ Q bar. This was the anchor bar of the whole street. When it went out of business, everyone suffered.

When will Jaksa get back on its feet again?

BB

The govt don't seem to want a lot of tourists here and are slightly xenophobic methinks. I mean even your poorest backpacker is spending more than your average Indonesian in a day and injecting cash directly into the economy . I just don't get it.

Canadians.

What a crappy video and poor way to show Canada. Canada rules because we are positive with each other (in Canada) and the rest of the world. We rule because we have so many different cultures and share and accept these cultures.

Maybe we will be the first country on earth were being “canadian” means that you can be any colour, race, culture, religion.

Noone would be able to distinguish a canadian when abroad, because Canada will be composed of all the various races on earth in an balanced and equilibrated way.

No BS video disgracing the flag please. Go blow something else (please, because i am a polite Canadian).

ice hockey

i always laugh when people bring hockey into these debates. according to the current ducks roster the previous season’s stanley cup winners the canadian ratio to american and european combined is more that 2:1 (15 out of 24). as for carolina there are more canadian players than american 11-9. as for tampa bay, there are 15 canadian and only 3 american. and even detroit…altho european heavy has 8 canadian and only 3 american. so before anyone brings up how AMERICAN teams are far more superior…just take a look-see as to why it is.

**disclaimer-these are from current year rosters…but they haven’t changed much.

but, i like america and americans…just certain people make things unbearable.

Piss, what are you on about?

I think what killed jaksa was all the stds the whores are carrying... that and the dismal looks the whores carry.

Oh... and I strongly suspect that it was in fact Piss who spread these STD's from whore to whore... but this has not been verified. It might have been Kenny.

Kenny could never get it up. It was all me.

It's a combination of things in no particular order of importance:

1. Lack of tourists (because of stupid gov't policies AND terrorism fears)

2. Lack of a really good, hip places to go (like the Q Bar used to be)

3. Lack of expats/residents living nearby (due to KrisMon, which saw the expat population dwindle considerably. Most now live in southern Jakarta or the southern/western outskirts.)

4. Distance from expats in #3, which didn't used to be such a problem but is now due to so much more traffic congestion, higher prices for taxis and petrol.

5. Overly negative reputation in the media and gossip amongst people who've never even been there.

6. The country has gotten much stricter in terms of drugs and other vices, which used to be easy to score without anybody judging you on Jl Jaksa and is not like that any longer.

7. The FPI and other thuggish, moral groups that bash up the place and get on the front page of the papers. This certainly has kept people away, even though it's only occurred like 3 or 4 times in the last 5 years.

8. Competition with other bars/cafes that have successfully attracted the bule/expat/foreign resident market - the ones who may not want a lap dance, but just a beer and some soccer and some conversation with other foreigners. (5 or 6 years ago there was no Bugil's [or its many descendants] or Aphro, so the only choice for a "bule" bar used to be either Jaksa OR places of extreme ill-repute like Tanamur or Blok M).

9. The poor state of the hotels/hostels and some bars. Most of these seem stuck in the 70s and haven't upgraded or even hired a competent janitor -- thus people don't stay on the street if they can help it.

10. The African contingent. (while I personally don't mind them one bit and consider several of the long-time regulars as friends, Indonesians and Englishmen are scared to death of them for some reason.)

English are scared to death of Africans??? Fuck me ric you haven't spent anytime in England have you son? think you will be surprised if you have a look around brixton ric ...

indonesians are certainly scared of the africans. why? maybe cause they're huge bastards with loud voices.

I should have noted that that wasn't necessarily my personal opinion but was told to me by a couple of Bule guys (1 English, 1 Aussie) who used to own/manage bars on Jaksa and had to field complaints from their English patrons.

What Jaksa needs, and I know for a fact there's been some consideration of it, is another successful, well-managed Bartele bar. If he could set up there, that alone would immensely improve Jaksa.

And if some guy (English or otherwise) wants to go to Jaksa for a beer with their Indonesian girlfriend, she will most definitely VETO that option because of that fear of Africans. Further, if Indonesians are afraid of them and thus don't go to Jaksa, then single Bule guys hoping to meet Indonesian girls naturally won't have any motivation to go there either.

Ask the Reveller on his opinion of the Nigerian contingent who occupy the block!

Good list, ricardo. One more thing both of us missed, the security situation. Not that I long for the 'good old days' of the new order or anything, but i wonder if it isn't a factor when backpackers are plotting out an itinerary.

I notice too that the aus, can and US embassies have had travel warnings on indo on an almost continual basis for years now.

Surely that can't help things.

As for the Aricans, I haven't really much noticed them. Out of interest, has anyone had an incident they'd care to relate?

I went to jaksa on saturday night and took an instant dislike to one of the African chaps drinking in Romance. Not because he was African but because he was supporting Manchester United. The management of Romance should know better than to allow United supporters in the bar ... no good can ever come of it.

one thing that seems to have been left off everyone's list, and that is the general decline in backpacker travel generally worldwide. times have changed.

I don't get it either... look at the neighboring country like Vietnam, a country with 85 million people and 8-9% GDP growth, Foreign Direct Investments are pouring in. The Vietnamese government is making smart decisions that move the country ahead of Indonesia, shame.

How so?

Ku, you gotta invite the lonely planet guy, give him media kit on Jaksa. Bet that'll bring backpackers back.

people nowadays are increasingly returning to "packaged" travel. perhaps it's a symptom of increasing prosperity in western developed countries. "backpacking", or free-wheeling, budget travel, used to be the preserve of poor hippy types who perhaps saw romance and adventure in poverty.

who says i want them back?! their time is past, i feel.

Are you saying, less competition for you Mr. Ku?

tourists aren't really my market i live/work in jaksa because it's safe, and, most importantly, because i'm "invisible"; for the most part, i'm treated as just another western tourist. one of the most annoying things about living in indonesia is the fact that as a bule, i am part of an extremely small minority. this entitles indonesians to treat you like a spectacle, which becomes tiresome very quickly!

Really? You may be right, but I'm not so sure. Last time I went back to the west I had the impression that a lot a people were disenfranchised and had tuned completely out of society. They walk around with their iPods and gadgets , covered in tatoos and don't give a damn about 'the war on terror' blah blah the economy, subprime loans, etc and live in an alternative culture of raves, clubbing etc.

I think these people would be into independent, seat of the pants sort of travel. This new wave of affluence many allude too hasn't swept everyone up, if you know what I mean, KKCK.

Ok, I have been visiting Jaksa several times a week for more than one year, and well, it's not really difficult to understand what killed it.

I am a peaceful person, but in there I had a fight for the first time in my two and a half years of presence in Indonesia and the first time at all since in ten years. A drunk bule.

I don't spend a week without hearing stories about fights and scandals, it's not really the best touristic attraction is it ?

Then, have you ever been in the hotels, or worse, hostels ? I mean, I travel on the cheap, and I'm used to crappy places, but Jaksa and Nick's get the first prize. How is a newcomer supposed to make the difference between a hostel and a brothel (during the day I mean)?

Something else, there, men are very often horribly disrespectful toward women. I mean, a prostitute is a human, you don't like her you ignore her. And any girl is not a prostitute, that too, some guys have to think hard about it.

Lately, by night, I had to intervene twice to "save" a newly met friend-girl of mine because she was being dragged by someone against her will.
The guys were big, I am small, I didn't fight (thanks god, I bloody hate it) but it's already enough to make me not want to go there for a while.

That's too bad, because I have met a lot of interesting people there, and they have become good friends by now. But not seeing them anymore is a tradeoff I am willing to make if it means not risking to have a fight every now and then... I mean, I'm supposed to drop the pressure when I'm there, not build it up !

Another friend-girl of mine went there two weeks ago, just to see. She came to the same conclusions as me now : Jaksa is a sad place. Really.

A Fine first post Mr Natas, many others feel as you do!

Nick's is indeed a brothel for ladies well past their used-by date. but quite an innocuous place. sure it's sad, but that's life. they don't want your sympathy; they want your money. they have children and themselves to feed.

"they don't want your sympathy; they want your money"

Yeah, I'm sure that's why so many tourists are attracted to the place.

I know about prostitutes, about hostesses and such girls, I've been living in Blora for a while, and I can't count the sad stories I've heard.

Sometimes they just don't care, and live their life, but sometimes, it's hard to listen without feeling sorry. Some of them actually want your sympathy, an evening of curhat or suchlike... like everybody else.

But once that apart, back to Jaksa, that's not what tourist want, they don't want to go to a place which is "sad, but that's life"

Have you seen the look of the street by day ? I mean, I don't care right, I am not a tourist (and have very rarely been), but jeez, when I try to make a list of what I like or not there, I realize that I only go there because it's quite cheap and I have a couple of friends.

you presume that the westerners you see there are tourists. most who you would see are, in fact, residents of indonesia.

and really, to judge the entire street on the basis of two of the sleaziest places (you also mentioned Alis Bar in another message) is completely unfair, and demostrates perhaps that your exposure to jaksa has been rather superficial.

there is far more to jaksa than Nick's Place and Alis Bar.

Erf, I've been visiting jaksa regularly for a year, I know that many bule there are living in Indonesia. You've probably seen me there too.

When I said

"Yeah, I'm sure that's why so many tourists are attracted to the place."

I was being sarcastic. The bad experiences I had are not from spending time in the aforementioned places but just walking around and having a chat more or less at random.

I had these experiences at random, and some other are recurrent, such as the lack of respect some guys have for the girls there.

Remember the topic : What killed Jaksa ? My point is, what partly killed Jaksa are places, events and people such as the ones I have experienced.

The worst scenario for a tourist is ending up at Nicks and then being harassed by girls saying "Get me a drink and use me, I have no money".

Don't get me wrong here, I don't hate the place. I like to go to the Memories (the gondrong guy singing there is awesome) and to the Absolute, and to the Romance (yes people seem not to like it much but suits me) and I love drinking a hot tea a 3 in the morning at some cafe tenda.

But what I don't like is seeing girls being dragged against their will by big guys, hearing other screaming scandal, being asked for drinks all night long (no coke, whiskey) and being asked "please use me, I have no money".

And I think, if as a resident I don't like it, tourists won't like it either.

One thing that re-enforces being treated like "a spectacle" is to allow Indonesians to use depreciating terms when speaking to you, or about you. The term for white (skinned) humans is Caucasian. Indonesians' current, favorite vilification - "bule" - shouldn't be used.

Except in movies when used for effect, when do you ever hear a Black person refer to himself as a "nigger", or an Italian a "spic"? How long do you think an Indonesian would last in, say, New York or Los Angeles if s/he called a Black person a "nigger"?

If the word doesn't have negative connotations, why don't those INA government functionaries returning home from overseas trips who speak on TV, call foreigners who give this country money and assistance, "bules"?

Some Whites think you can buy favor for yourself by going along with the apparent joke when you allow someone to call you, or you call yourself, a bule. It might appear that you're doing a good job of currying favor, but you can't hear the internal snickering among Indonesians in your circle who are listening and watching you. They're laughing because the joke is on you!

So just keep it up. Keep calling yourself the equivalent of a "white nigger" and then wonder why Indonesians think of you as a "spectacle" - a moving road show. It's because you are.

I always find it interesting when people worry about what somebody else thinks or says about them. Words are only offensive if people empower them so I don't really care what people call me.

At the end of the day I live life the way that I feel is right and is comfortable with me. I honestly don't give a toss what other people are saying / doing as it is something I have no control over.

Some people will like me, Some people will hate me, Some people aren’t going to care either way

ah, the old bule debate ... where's riccardo when you need him?!

i personally don't find the term offensive, though i can certainly understand the arguments that are put up against using such terms.

curiously, the people who seem to have the strongest opinions about this are american (i will stand corrected on this.) i can only speculate that perhaps this is because racialism is a particularly sensitive issue in the US.

Bule, Farang, Gwai Loh... Every country in SE Asia has its names for "us" So what!

Exactly... I mean... why worrying about it ? It's what we are. As long as I don't hear "Dasar bule" or "Bule brengsek" or "Nasklain Tamune" I don't see why I should worry.

The things that bothers me, on the other hand, it the fact that we are often mistaken for walking wallets, perverts and so on. But again, this reputation didn't come alone, so instead of pouting and cursing in silence, better if we explain the whys and hows...

Bule pronounced [Blay] is a commonly used word in Indonesia to describe a white person or person of European descent. It is also used for calling light-colored persons. Even though several dictionaries point out the definition as albino, most native Indonesian do not consider the term as derogatory. Even so some foreigners find it offensive for different reasons. Some consider the word as a racial slur, since they previously lived in a homogeneous society[1]. Thinking Indonesians as racist and uneducated, some foreigners are even thinking to 'teach' Indonesian so the natives would not use the term.

?I will be very astounded if this article ?bule? is removed when there are huge lists of other ethnic slur like nigger, nip, chink, wop, gook is listed in Wikipedia which are just as pejorative if not more. Let us not practise this double standard by removing the term ?bule? simply because some white-skinned people finds it offensive.?

That was from Wikipedia. Nothing wrong with being a Bule, I've been called worse. It perhaps carries with it a slight racial slur but ultimately the joke's on Indonesia and it's general stick up the arse, sons of the soil nationalism which is helping to keep the country well behind its local rivals in terms of foreign investment and infrastructure development.

And a happy new year to you Roys Hair

Heh heh, Happy Noo Yee-hah Mr.Chew. It was great - went to Lombok - It's a lovely place for sure and is still very unspoilt - I reckon it kicks Bali's arse, anyone have a comment to add about this outrageous claim?

Thanks for that Ken, insightful and incisive as always

His reputation as one of Indonesia's most insightful commentators is well deserved.

a picture tells a thousand words ay?

...or a thousand strokes..

Peeling his vegetables?